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  1. Thank you for these reviews. It’s helpful to know what experts think (as opposed to just critics). I’m curious as to what you might think about Mr. Gore’s movie “An Inconvenient Truth.” I’m especially interested to know whether thie movie (or the books you review) touch upon the ‘dimming’ effects as per the recent Nova report.

    [Response:I saw the movie in a pre-screening on Tuesday. I liked it. Look for a short review early next week. — eric]

    Comment by jhm — 5 May 2006 @ 12:38 AM

  2. Have you read the book “On Thin Ice” about Lonnie Thompson’s work? I found it to be quite engaging and a very good introduction to climate science, covering both historical and contemporary work quite nicely.

    Comment by John Sully — 5 May 2006 @ 1:20 AM

  3. Hi!

    Although not a book, but a magazine would be nice to hear some thought about it…

    [Response: Agenda-driven cherry picking – gavin]

    Comment by Magnus — 5 May 2006 @ 3:02 AM

  4. Tim Flannery appeared very concerned (to my mind) about current warming from the ecosystem point of view and probably got carried out somewhat in stating this.

    He did mention the work of the guys who believe that mankind started burning (clearing forests) 8000 years ago and averted a big freeze that got a major article in Scientific American around a year ago (as if it was the truth as opposed to being his scientific belief) and that the interglacials seem to cast doubt on that work which is why anyone reading Scientific American would have thouigh it was true.

    Strange World we live in where science meets media is concerned. That is why RC is the best as at least it is run by scientists who can communicate with the semi intelligent arm chair scientist like myself.

    Keep it up please.

    Comment by pete best — 5 May 2006 @ 4:58 AM

  5. Accepting faults you find in Flannery’s The Weather Makers, I think his book still has merits – including with regard to some aspects of the politics, viz criticism of the behaviour of the Australian government, an important ally of the US administration on climate issues. And he continues this in, for example, the NY Review of Books (The Ominous New Pact, 23 Feb 06) regarding the AP6 (Asia Pacific Partnership on Clean Development and Climate).

    Comment by Caspar Henderson — 5 May 2006 @ 5:05 AM

  6. “The Science and Politics of Global Climate Change, a Guide to the Debate” by Andrew Dessler and Edward Parson (Cambridge, 2006) is more comprehensive, gives a better-rounded brief treatment of each issue, is much better on the extra science issues, and more thoughtful than the books in Gavin’s review, as good as they are. It is about the same length, more expensive, not a pop style but very readable. I’d be curious to see what others think of it.

    Comment by Bruce Marshall — 5 May 2006 @ 8:03 AM

  7. Thanks for this review. Flannery’s is the only book I’ve read so far, and his suggestion that the IPCC reports have been watered down by consensus jumped out at me, too. I worried this was true (sounded plausible enough to me), so it was good to read your take on it. Having heard him speak in Hamilton, Ontario, a few weeks ago, (his presentation is excellent, by the way, and contains the very best parts of his book) I got the sense that, like Gore, he’s a man on a mission.

    What he does very well, IMO, is to give people a starting point for personal action. He argues that CO2 reductions of 70% might take governments decades, but can be achieved in a matter of months by individuals. That’s certainly been true for our household.

    Real Climate is the most reliable source for information. Your articles are detailed, yet readable, technical, yet accessible. This really is the best climate site on the internet. Thank you so much for doing it.

    Comment by Catherine Jansen — 5 May 2006 @ 9:00 AM

  8. I was delighted to find RealClimate via a recent article on and quickly added to my Google homepage. Of these three books I have read The Weather Makers and am looking forward to Kolbert’s and Linden’s books later this summer.

    I do not think Flannery’s book is intended for an audience that needs to be convinced of climate change. For me, The Weather Makers was an extraorinary eye-opener, illustrating the connectness of our planet’s systems and fragility of our civilization. Tim is doing a wonderful job promoting the book and igniting much-needed debate among mainstream consumers. Since The Weather Makers has received so much media attention, many people have read it and you can talk about it with a wide array of people.

    Comment by Rob Davis, Minneapolis — 5 May 2006 @ 11:17 AM

  9. I just found this review following a hint at the end of the ‘Methane burp’ thread by Brad Arnold, and am going to go hunt up the book.
    Leggett, J. (2001). The Carbon War: Global Warming and the End of the Oil Era. New York, NY, Routledge

    Anyone read it? It’s a historical piece now (the author began as an academic geologist and moved to Greenpeace; the book ends 10 years ago, and focused on the political maneuvering during the decade before that, which is by now very long ago)
    Review here:

    Comment by Hank Roberts — 5 May 2006 @ 11:37 AM

  10. Re 3

    Try the Touchgraph Googlebrowser and check out co2science’s link network. I put a static version here.

    Of course, scientific arguments should stand on their own merits, regardless of who likes & links to them. How about this one:
    “Growth-enhancing effects of CO2 create an impetus for cooling. Carbon dioxide is a powerful aerial fertilizer, directly enhancing the growth of almost all terrestrial plants and many aquatic plants as its atmospheric concentration rises. And just as increased algal productivity at sea increases the emission of sulfur gases to the atmosphere, ultimately leading to more and brighter clouds over the world’s oceans, so too do CO2-induced increases in terrestrial plant productivity lead to enhanced emissions of various sulfur gases over land, where they likewise ultimately cool the planet. In addition, many non-sulfur-based biogenic materials of the terrestrial environment play major roles as water- and ice-nucleating aerosols; and the airborne presence of these materials should also be enhanced by rising levels of atmospheric CO2. Hence, it is possible that incorporation of this multifaceted CO2-induced cooling effect into the suite of equations that comprise the current generation of global climate models might actually tip the climatic scales in favor of global cooling in the face of continued growth of anthropogenic CO2 emissions.” (Source)

    Comment by Tom Fiddaman — 5 May 2006 @ 11:58 AM

  11. I agree that policy makers should generally wait for assessments that give a broad view of the literature, since they are often unable to tell which papers in journals are most compelling. However, I think one can go too far with such assessments, and I hope we never reach the point where scientists themselves feel that such things are necessary before they form an opinion of what’s the likely truth. Sometimes, an individual paper can indeed be sufficiently compelling to count as a breakthrough in itself — particularly when it restores consistency between observations and general theoretical expectations which one has independent reasons to trust. Opinions can differ, but I think the Fu et al paper could reasonably be considered in the category of single-papers that deserve a lot of weight. Hence, I myself wouldn’t come down too hard on Flannery for his reliance on this paper. I do agree that his description of the IPCC process as “least-common-denominator” science is wholly unwarranted.

    Comment by raypierre — 5 May 2006 @ 1:00 PM

  12. Another frustrating misstatement in Flannery’s book is the suggestion that young forests are better carbon sinks than old forests, which misses the relaitvley larger carbon pool (both above and below ground) associated with older forests. A more sound approach would recognize that (1) converting old forest to young forests releases significant amounts of carbon (both above and below ground), (2) young forests are only good carbon sinks if they are allowed to grow and hold onto the carbon for centuries, yet there are too few economic incentives for doing so, and (2) the fraction of carbon that is put into long-term storage after logging is very small, i.e. old forests are better at storing carbon than our disposable culture. Sound public policy would (a) protect old forests, (b) grow young forests into older forests (aka, longer rotations), and (c) when logging, retain significant residual trees both live and dead.

    Comment by Doug H — 5 May 2006 @ 1:37 PM

  13. Thank you very much for these reviews. I look forward to the review of Mr. Gore’s movie.

    Comment by Mike Salem — 5 May 2006 @ 1:44 PM

  14. RE 10 (Fiddaman):

    Outstanding link sir. Thank you.



    Comment by Dano — 5 May 2006 @ 2:17 PM

  15. It’s rather unlike that the 8200 (cal) BP event and the drainage of lake agassiz are related. There is a small dating gap. The drainage appears to have happened between ~10,000 and 9,600 carbon years according to Lowell et al EOS 2005

    The dates calibrate to ~11,400 Cal BP – 11,200 cal BP (INTCAL04 calibration) which is closer to the Younger Dryas than the authors would have realized, but the link with the 8200 BP event is less clear than ever. Note that this latter event codates with the massive Storegga landslide.

    [Response: You are confused. The event Lowell et al were talking about is not the same event as Barber et al (1999) looked at – that was the final drainage of Lakes Agassiz + Ojibway and that was carbon dated to 7800 to 7600 radio-carbon years, and calibrated to 8470+/-200 years calender BP. -gavin]

    Comment by Andre — 5 May 2006 @ 4:14 PM

  16. RE: #9. I have not read it but seeing mention of it prompted me to comment about the end of the oil era. In most of California, we do not use oil for electricity generation. Natural gas is the fossil fuel of choice, where that method is even used at all. We use more wind, solar and hydro than most states. In essence, in terms of the electricity grid, we are beyond oil, interstate transfers during unusual peak periods notwithstanding. Downsides? Well you all read about our brownouts and blackouts a few years ago. But we adapted. We use less electricity per capita.

    In terms of transportation, we drive generally smaller vehicles than they use in other states. I think we’ve probably passed our peak of the big SUV craze (but it was never really as much of a craze here as in other states). Our fuel prices have long been higher than the national average due to both a stringent “clean air” regulatorily mandated formulation and very high fuel taxes. Significantly, now that our Legislature has passed a carbon tax and Arnie signed it into law, we will approach some of the lesser expensive European locales in terms of fuel costs. Hello Smart Cars?

    Bottom line is, in this state we are being soft landed into the Age After Oil. It hurts, but it’s not deadly.

    Comment by Steve Sadlov — 5 May 2006 @ 4:42 PM

  17. Re:10 and 14,

    that is a very interesting link. The connections between websites are quite revealing.

    Try looking at ‘s link too.


    Comment by Robert — 5 May 2006 @ 5:15 PM

  18. Here in the UK free newspapers are delivered through our doors. We call them Freebies. They do not have the authority of the (London) Times, or even the Washington Times, but I was interested in a report of a talk in my local Community Magazine by a Dr Mayer Hillman which read “The tipping point has passed. We cannot reverse the process of temperatures rising. Climate scientists”, he said “haven’t got the guts to tell governments the truth …”

    Gavin, you criticised Tim Flannery and wrote “Does global dimming indicate that we will be required to take CO2 out of the atmosphere in order to stabilize Earth’s climate? (p302).” You know that the Greenland ice sheet is melting. How else, apart from getting CO2 levels below those which cause ice sheet melting, do you propose we should implement to halt a process which will lead to the 100 million population of Bangladesh disappearing below the waves?

    Comment by Alastair McDonald — 5 May 2006 @ 8:39 PM

  19. I read Tim Flannery’s book wanted to know the facts – decided I had had my head in the sand long enough. I quickly realised (and should have thought, having read some of his other books) that he was never going to be the scientist setting out the pros and cons in a sober way. I still found it very convincing, though.

    Your review is a good summary of why I should have been more cautious, as a generalist reader, but from someone starting out as a sceptic, it convinced me.

    Actually, one of the things I found most thought provoking was his description of the media habit of always having a commentator from each side of a controversial issue – doesn’t matter where the balance of probabilities are – if there is a controversy, both sides get equal time.

    In my view, this is one issue where the mainstream media (at least in Australia) has comprehensively failed to present the facts, instead falling back on providing opinion from both sides.

    I’ll look out for the other two books.

    Comment by Jennifer — 5 May 2006 @ 9:17 PM

  20. I would recommend William Calvins’ book – A Brain for All Seasons: Human Evolution and Abrupt Climate Change.

    It describes how climate changes (which we’d dearly like to avoid) seem to have shaped the development of our species. As a young man I followed archeological finds avidly, but stopped doing so. The much deeper understanding of our ancestors which we now have was very interesting for me. The discussions of abrupt climate change in the book helped me stitch together information I’d only seen parts of in newspaper and general magazine articles, and eventually led me here.

    [Response: Calvin’s book is very engaging, but he seems to have overly bought into the invalid view that shutdown of the thermohaline circulation could bring on a European ice age in the future. This exaggeration shows up more in his Atlantic Monthly article (cover with icebergs along the Florida beach), but there are places where Calvin’s thin understanding of climate science leaks into the “Brain” book, too. He even may be overstating some of the remote impacts of abrupt change in the past. Abrupt change is indeed a valid concern for the future, but we shouldn’t take the Younger Dryas as an archetype for all abrupt change, or assume that a THC shutdown would have a similar effect on a warm climate as it does in a cold climate. Apropos of abrupt change, I was ironically amused by Gavin’s remark that the 8.2K event doesn’t fit the definition of abrupt change in the NRC report. I was an author of this report, and I never thought it was a good idea to attempt a precise definition of abrupt change, but a certain member of the panel (who shall remain un-named here) vehemently argued for precise definitions, which not only wasted a lot of time but wound up with a definition that I myself don’t think was very satisfactory to anybody. I was in favor of just loosely defining abrupt change by reference to a number of examples from the past record — and I would have included the 8.2K event as one of that list. –raypierre]

    Comment by John A. — 6 May 2006 @ 12:20 AM

  21. Re #15 Gavin’s comment.

    You’re right I overlooked a few dozen publications about the 8200 event and the Hudson bay drainage. My bad. However ducking into it, I notice that there is quite a discrepancy in dating. Several other proxies (d18O GISP, delta 14C INTCAL04, Venado Cave monsoon record, Cariaco sediment core gray scale) suggest that the event was triggered around ~8260 Cal years BP. (INTCAL04: 8270+/-5) not the 8400 years BP of Barber et al.

    Furthermore, the ice dam scenario as well as the Hudson bay location seems to be challenged here:

    Rapid post glacial isostatic rebounce perhaps?

    And then, if the ocean surface water was “diluted” with isotopic light melt water, would this not be reflected with a similar drop in the Greenland ice cores, just by a changing isotope signature of the source, instead of a temperature drop?

    [Response: The dates are within the error bars, but the test is whether the consequences of the Lake drainage are consistent with the observed response. Read our paper and decide for yourself: – gavin]

    Comment by Andre — 6 May 2006 @ 5:26 AM

  22. Re 12:

    Surely the ability of forests to sink carbon depends on the frequency of fire, the forest type, and a host of other factors.

    Comment by C. W. Magee — 6 May 2006 @ 6:08 AM

  23. I read Flannery’s book, liked it and am not sure what you mean by saying it is “too polemical to appeal to those not already convinced”. If there is a need for someone to write a book that does for climate change what Silent Spring did for pesticides, it is important to note that the latter was and is considered polemic – and had many predictions of the sort that would probably not pass review in today’s instantaneous and expert review environment. The book that helps inform and involve more of the public in the climate change issue will be judged mainly on how well it accomplishes that task.

    Comment by George — 6 May 2006 @ 10:24 AM

  24. Could you please comment on this? It this just garbage? Especially the last sentence.


    David C. Archibald
    Summa Development Limited, Perth, WA, Australia,
    Projections of weak solar maxima for solar cycles 24 and 25 are correlated with the terrestrial climate response to solar cycles over the last three hundred years, derived from a review of the literature. Based on solar maxima of approximately 50 for solar cycles 24 and 25, a global temperature decline of 1.5°C is predicted to 2020, equating to the experience of the Dalton Minimum. To provide a baseline for projecting temperature to the projected maximum of solar cycle 25, data from five rural, continental US stations with data from 1905 to 2003 was averaged and smoothed. The profile indicates that temperatures remain below the average over the first half of the twentieth century.

    [Response: Hmmm. I wonder why only five weather stations out of ~6000 were chosen… -gavin]

    Comment by joel Hammer — 6 May 2006 @ 4:12 PM

  25. Since this is the book review thread, I’ll review a book that some of you, with access to a good library or who are wealthy, might find interesting:

    S. Albeverio, et al.,
    “Extreme Events in Nature and Society”,
    Springer, 2006.

    Each of the 15 chapters are written by a different set of authors, which, other than the introductory chapter, treat a different aspect of ‘extreme events’, or ‘Xevents’ as the carfully edited book will term such. No chapter goes into great depth, although some require knowledge of mathematics and statistics. In return, each offers some aspects of Xevents, all are well written and all offer an extensive bibliography for further exploration.

    No chapter direcctly treats matters of climate; the one mention of climate. in chapter 3, should better be called weather. There are three chapters on aspects of weather: one each on wind, avalanches and a thoroughly fascinating one on rogue waves. However, the chapter on the mathematics of Xevents might have some applications to climate and the chapter on ‘Endogeneous versus Exogenous Origins of Crises’ might also provoke some new conceptions.

    For those interested in who holds various views on climate, or other matters, can be held by a populace, the chapter on ‘Computer Simulations of Opinions and their Reactions to Extreme Events’
    will be illuminating, with some conclusions I found rather surprising.

    Springer books are never inexpensive. As this one has 115 figures, with 7 in color, I don’t even want to go find the cost.
    Instead, have your local research library buy it.

    Comment by David B. Benson — 6 May 2006 @ 4:22 PM

  26. Apropos Ray’s comments on my two excursions into climate (and he’s one of my favorite commentators on climate subjects), that Atlantic Monthly cover story was written nine years ago and the book about five years ago.

    Re the worldwide consequences of a D-O event, I have long realized that the evidence is mostly limited to the YD. I generally emphasize that the temperature changes at the equator at sea level are more like 3C/5F, that it is the drought that gets civilizations into big trouble well before the consequences of cooling arrive. It is difficult to imagine any D-O event — even the smaller and exponentially relaxing 8200-yr event — as not having major consequences in the present-day world, dependent as we are on efficiently feeding a huge urban population without interruptions. For the climate scientist, it is important to our understanding to differentiate between YD and the others re worldwide spread of consequences. For more general readers, I remain to be persuaded. If there is any suggestion that our present warm climate would be significantly less sensitive than glacial and transition times (rather than there simply being a gap in our knowledge there), I’d sure like to know it.

    For most purposes re public policy on climate flips, it is the demonstrated instability and the role played by freshening the North Atlantic that needs emphasis, along with the melt water from Greenland adding to the effects of increased rainfall in the very places where downwelling seems to be most efficiently conducted, the Larador and Greenland Seas.

    [Response:Thanks, William. I hope I remain one of your favorites, despite my gently critical remarks. One of the main developments over the last nine years has been a growing understanding of the role that sea ice plays in amplifying the influence of THC shutdown such as presumably was involved in the YD. This is far from a settled story, but most of the scientists I know now have the feeling that in a high CO2 world with less sea ice, the chill from a THC shutdown would be a lot less. This is more or less the stance Wally Broecker took at his recent talk at the Adler Planetarium here in Chicago. It’s not a done deal, but that’s where things are heading. I agree with your sentiment that drought is the big driver on impact, and Wally emphasized the possibility for mega-droughts as something to worry about re future abrupt changes. The problem is that so far, we have a rather poor understanding of what kind of situation could bring on such events abruptly. Unlike the case of the D-O events and Younger Dryas which tell us something about what abrupt change is like in cold climates, we have no analogous climates we can look at to see what abrupt changes might be like in a hothouse world. The Cretaceous would do nicely, or even the Miocene or Pliocene, but the time resolution of the geological record there, to my knowledge, precludes looking at abrupt changes. –raypierre]

    Comment by William H. Calvin — 6 May 2006 @ 4:47 PM

  27. Thanks Ray. Unfortunately the system keeps losing me (maybe IE7??) and that was a draft, not the final, which follows:

    Apropos Ray’s comments on my two excursions into climate (and he’s one of my favorite commentators on climate subjects), that Atlantic Monthly cover story was written nine years ago and the Brain for All Seasons book about five years ago. In most of the places where I was worried about overstating the science, a rereading persuades me that things were even more alarmng than I’d thought at the time, even where I’d now reword things to take account of new evidence.

    Re the worldwide consequences of a D-O event, I have long realized that the evidence is mostly limited to the YD. I generally emphasize that the temperature changes at the equator at sea level are more like 3C/5F, that it is the drought that gets civilizations into big trouble well before the consequences of cooling arrive. It is difficult to imagine any D-O event — even the smaller and exponentially relaxing 8400-yr event — as not having major consequences in the present-day world, dependent as we are on efficiently feeding a huge urban population without interruptions. Interruptions risk resource wars and genocide, not to mention disease and civil disorder.

    For the climate scientist, it is important to our understanding to differentiate between YD and the others re worldwide spread of consequences. For more general readers, I remain to be persuaded that the data gap is newsworthy.

    If there is any suggestion that our present warm climate would be significantly less sensitive than glacial and transition times (rather than there simply being a gap in our knowledge there), I’d sure like to know it. What I emphasize is that the NADW has been declining but that we don’t know where the failure threshold really is — then show Tom Stocker’s 100 runs of threshold straddling and emphasize that even getting close to threshold gives wild fluctuations.

    For the merely rapid changes such as sea level rise, the public policy implications are not much affected by the scientific uncertainties in what happens at the base of ice sheets to grease the skids; it suffices to say that 2m/century were seen in the past and that this may understate the problem because our projected temperature rise may be 8x quicker. For most purposes re public policy on abrupt climate flips, it is the demonstrated instability and the role played by freshening the North Atlantic that needs emphasis.

    We’re scientists: we’re always going to be dissatisfied with the uncertainties and remind each other of them. But people wanting to postpone change have been eagerly taking our standard scientific uncertainty out of context, the same way patients do with a suspected cancer. Physicians have to remember that the doc who waits until dead certain before acting may run a substantial risk of winding up with a dead patient.

    Comment by William H. Calvin — 6 May 2006 @ 6:13 PM

  28. Dear Sir or Madam:
    The latest Literature Carnival is featuring a link to one of your posts. The purpose of the Literature Carnival is to provide a meeting place for bloggers who blog on literature. The Carnival, held every two weeks, is hosted each week by a different literature-related blog and lists links to some dozen best literature related stories of the past fortnight.
    We would like you to invite you to the current Carnival page here and browse through the entries. And we would like to ask you to please give us a link. Perhaps you could include the carnival address in your blogroll, or, failing that, you could make a post at your blog saying something like: The latest Literature Carnival is here.
    Useful links:
    About Literature Carnival < Current issue of the Literature Carnival
    Submit/nominate an entry
    To host the next literature blog, please write to dana(dot)huff(at)gmail(dot)com.
    Best regards and keep up the good work.
    The Literature Carnival Team

    Comment by Gawain — 6 May 2006 @ 10:12 PM

  29. I read the coments, especially the cooling events kiloyears ago. Some questions.

    The poles cool, so heat moves out of the poles to where? Ocean? Atmosphere? Radiation? The tropics get warmer?

    Comment by Matt — 7 May 2006 @ 2:13 AM

  30. Where is there a strong equitorial responce to the Y-D? I was under the impression that it was hard to find in PNG and Indonesia, and generally absent from the southern Hemisphere.

    Comment by C. W. Magee — 7 May 2006 @ 6:24 AM

  31. Gavin

    You are very unfair to Tim Flannery in my humble view. The IPCC 2001 report got the magnitude of Greenland and Antarctic melting wrong according to several articles in Mar 24, Science. In the case of Greenland glacial physics wasn’t well understood. The IPCC report did not take into account thawing permafrost and the subsequent release of methane. Meanwhile the environmental situation is much worse today than that report would have us believe as the human impact is not simply limited to carbon dioxide release in the atmosphere. We are losing species at a higher rate, the gulf is warming faster. New Orleans is still not rebuilt. The genocide in Sudan is spreading to Chad. The Amazon is smaller than previously thought, mountaintop removal minding is spreading its evil ugliness further into Appalachia. We already have a catastrophe the likes of which homo sapiens have never before experienced. Simply measuring a few degrees rise in temperature and guessing the effect on storms and sea levels tells only a very small part of the story on man’s effect on our environment. You need to get out from behind that computer up in New York and visit Larry Gibson in the Coal River Valley, West Virginia. It will blow you away.

    And we have no solutions. Coal is dirty. We cannot sequester carbon dioxide and we cannot remove coal from the Earth cleanly. Nuclear power is insane. There was a brilliant article in the LA times a few days ago describing the warning signs the government is planning on using for Yuca Mountain. How do you make an effective sign which reads “Don’t dig here until the year 20000” and make it last for 20000 years? INSANE.

    Instead of bashing Flannery, we need to help people understand that the catastorphe has already begun. Flannery’s book is five stars even if it does have a modest flaw here or there.

    The Earth’s carrying capacity is maybe at a stretch 4 billion people. How do you see us getting down to that number? I know how Bush will try to engineer that.

    The Weather Makers is spot on. We need more books and media which scare the #@$% out of people.

    Best regards

    [Response: Uncertainty goes both ways and scientists can only describe what they know. Assuming that everything that is uncertain must be worse than expected is irrational. My point was not to claim that the IPCC process is perfect – it is not. But where there are serious uncertainties those were acknowledged in TAR. Your points are well taken, but the license to agitate for change should not be a license to be careless or be more certain than warranted. It is not that I dis-approve of Flannery’s thrust – far from it – but this was not the book it could have been, and as a reflection of science, as opposed to political advocacy, it is unfortunately lacking. – gavin]

    Comment by Tony Noerpel — 7 May 2006 @ 8:21 AM

  32. Re: 26

    I long ago hit the point where I felt like I was the equivalent of Poe’s raven on the agricultural dangers of GW. Calvin says, “It is difficult to imagine any D-O event — even the smaller and exponentially relaxing 8200-yr event — as not having major consequences in the present-day world, dependent as we are on efficiently feeding a huge urban population without interruptions.”

    Temperatures don’t need to warm much to produce those interruptions. A farmer’s horizon is 2 years. He will plant next year in response to this year’s weather. He has no other choice. An increase of energy in the atmosphere all but guarantees an increase in climate variability.

    Comment by Jeffrey Davis — 7 May 2006 @ 9:51 AM

  33. When the polar regions cool the amount of sea ice increases. Ice has a much higher albedo than open water, so it reflects more energy from the sun back into space. So the short answer is that the heat radiates into space.

    Comment by Blair Dowden — 7 May 2006 @ 10:18 AM

  34. RE “Flannery is quite critical of the IPCC process, describing it as ‘lowest common denominator science’ and claiming that it must be assumed that things are likely to be worse than are described in those reports.”

    Though I highly respect IPCC & am very thankful to its contributors and committees & all their hard work, I feel a bit as Flannery does about it. I think that’s mainly because of my penchant for avoiding false negatives (r/t scientists’ need to avoid false positives to protect their reputations). My eyes are more trained on the high end predictions, than low end (worse) predictions. Expect (and try to avert) the worst, and hope for the best.

    Also, I think the IPCC reports (their somewhat centrist positions) go in the direction of worse & worse problems and impacts for humanity (in addition to stronger & stronger evidence). Correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t SAR have GW worse & causing more problems than FAR has these, and TAR worse than SAR? (I’ve been too busy to read more than the brief summaries.)

    Comment by Lynn Vincentnathan — 7 May 2006 @ 10:34 AM

  35. Thanks, Blair, I thought so. So, the THC reduces, the North Sea cools by radiation and ice reflection increases. This cools the Northern land masses by convection. Heat transfer shifts from a ocean transport to atmospheric transport. Water gets moved from the tropics to the North via storms.

    The Co2 forcing kicks in and forces the cycles to its extremes. And something turn the THC back on at the bottom.

    Is this the basic current thinking?

    Comment by Matt — 7 May 2006 @ 12:04 PM

  36. Re #15 & 21

    Gavin, has there been any consideration of the draining of the Baltic Ice Lake as a possible cause of the 8,200 BP event? I looked at the drainage sequence several years ago and at the time, the last drainage appeared to have occurred at roughly 8,200 BP. Might that have an impact on the del18O data for the East Norwegian Sea noted in your paper with LeGrande? My interest was the result of hearing a conference presentation in 1993 in which a geological marker was mentioned appearing at roughly that time at a site which indicated a drainage from the Baltic.

    Just curious…

    [Response: Judging from the descriptions and on the timing for the reconnection of the Yodia Sea/Lake to the Atlantic appears close – but the changes in sea level at that point seem minimal, and so the amount of the freshwater that could get into the Atlantic was probably small. However, I haven’t seen a properly worked out estimate of potential effects. – gavin]

    Comment by Eric Swanson — 7 May 2006 @ 1:11 PM

  37. Very nice reviews! But would you please comment on the global warming on Jupiter, Triton, Enceladus, Saturn, Pluto, Mars, and Venus?

    I am very confused. It seems that the skeptics are right and they have proved that the global warming is of natural origin.

    [Response: Why is it that people who appear to be good at spotting basically falacious arguments in their own fields are so woefully bad at seeing them in others? None of these examples are at all relevant to the issues on Earth as a moment’s reflection would demonstrate – how many seasonal cycles do the Pluto observations cover? How ‘global’ are any of the measurements? Please. See here for more info: -gavin]

    Comment by Jihye Yin — 7 May 2006 @ 3:26 PM

  38. Re #37: It takes a certain amount of chutzpah for Motl to use Venus as an example of global warming when that warming is not recent even on geological timescales…and is actually a poster-child for the CO2 greenhouse effect. But, hey, all is fair when you are doing proselytizing and not science.

    Also, since Motl noted all these examples of warming, I assume he must have some universal theory…or at least hypothesis…to explain them…I am hoping for something a bit better than “Well, the sun is somehow getting hotter even though our measurements don’t detect this.” Note that the more exotic proposed mechanisms (like intergalactic cosmic rays effects on clouds) that some people have dreamed up to provide amplification for the sun’s effect here on earth won’t work on these other bodies.

    Comment by Joel Shore — 7 May 2006 @ 5:52 PM

  39. My favorite is the claim about Pluto. AFAIUI, the evidence we are talking about is a few occultation events over fifteen years that indicate changes in atmospheric pressure. Pluto’s year is almost 300 earth years.

    So on earth we have thousands of stations taking daily readings for decades to centuries plus so many other lines of evidence and the septics are still not sure it is real. On pluto we have one very indirect reading of an indirect indicator over a time period equivalent to about a month on earth and it is proof positive! Plus we must ignore the direct solar monitoring we have at our finger tips in favor of this new “smoking gun”!

    Also, here on Earth, Katrina being attributed to GW is an outrage of environmental extremism. One new storm starting up on Jupiter however…

    File those under “Puh-leeze”

    Comment by Coby — 7 May 2006 @ 6:11 PM

  40. Re# 36

    Thanks Gavin. I was actually thinking of one stage in the history, that of the Ancylus Lake, which drained about 8 kyr BP. I had seen maps seen in Figure 2 at this URL;

    which appeared in this summary report;

    Bjorck S (1995). A review of the history of the Baltic Sea, 13.0-8.0 ka BP. Quaternary International 27, 19-40.

    Comment by Eric Swanson — 7 May 2006 @ 7:22 PM

  41. >Another frustrating misstatement in Flannery’s book is the suggestion that young forests are better carbon sinks than old forests, which misses the relaitvley larger carbon pool (both above and below ground) associated with older forests.

    Also I seem to remember that old forests adapt better to extreme events than young forests; young forests (especially during the first ten years of life) tend to seqester very little carbon during drougts, floods and so on. In addition don’t mature trees survive fire much better than young trees – which during forest fire act as tinder?

    Comment by Gar Lipow — 7 May 2006 @ 11:48 PM

  42. Given that Pluto is currently on the outward-bound leg of its highly eccentric orbit, warming there would be very strange indeed.

    Comment by C. W. Magee — 8 May 2006 @ 8:14 AM

  43. Unfortunately, I think that this article suggests what we are in for in the 21st century, and suggests further that “polemics” about the urgency of dealing with global warming may be appropriate at this point:

    Ice-Capped Roof of World Turns to Desert
    Scientists warn of ecological catastrophe across Asia as glaciers melt and continent’s great rivers dry up
    by Geoffrey Lean
    May 7, 2006
    The Independent/UK

    Global warming is rapidly melting the ice-bound roof of the world, and turning it into desert, leading scientists have revealed. The Chinese Academy of Sciences – the country’s top scientific body – has announced that the glaciers of the Tibetan plateau are vanishing so fast that they will be reduced by 50 per cent every decade. Each year enough water permanently melts from them to fill the entire Yellow River.

    They added that the vast environmental changes brought about by the process will increase droughts and sandstorms over the rest of the country, and devastate many of the world’s greatest rivers, in what experts warn will be an “ecological catastrophe”.

    The plateau, says the academy, has a staggering 46,298 glaciers, covering almost 60,000 square miles. At an average height of 13,000 feet above sea level, they make up the largest area of ice outside the polar regions, nearly a sixth of the world’s total.

    The glaciers have been receding over the past four decades, as the world has gradually warmed up, but the process has now accelerated alarmingly. Average temperatures in Tibet have risen by 2 degrees Fahrenheit over the past 20 years, causing the glaciers to shrink by 7 per cent a year, which means that they will halve every 10 years.

    Prof Dong Guangrong, speaking for the academy – after a study analysing data from 680 weather stations scattered across the country – said that the rising temperatures would thaw out the tundra of the plateau, turning it into desert.

    He added: “The melting glaciers will ultimately trigger more droughts, expand desertification and increase sand storms.” The water running off the plateau is increasing soil erosion and so allowing the deserts to spread.

    Sandstorms, blowing in from the degraded land, are already plaguing the country. So far this year, 13 of them have hit northern China, including Beijing. Three weeks ago one storm swept across an eighth of the vast country and even reached Korea and Japan. On the way, it dumped a mind-boggling 336,000 tons of dust on the capital, causing dangerous air pollution.

    The rising temperatures are also endangering the newly built world’s highest railway, which is due to go into operation this summer. They threaten to melt the permafrost under the tracks of the £1.7bn Tibetan railway, constructed to link the area with China’s northwestern Qinghai province.

    Perhaps worst of all, the melting threatens to disrupt water supplies over much of Asia. Many of the continent’s greatest rivers – including the Yangtze, the Indus, the Ganges, the Brahmaputra, the Mekong and the Yellow River – rise on the plateau.

    In China alone, 300 million people depend on water from the glaciers for their survival. Yet the plateau is drying up, threatening to escalate an already dire situation across the country. Already 400 cities are short of water; in 100 of them – including Beijing – the shortages are becoming critical.

    Even hopes that the melting glaciers might provide a temporary respite, by increasing the amount of water flowing off the plateau – have been dashed. For most of the water is evaporating before it reaches the people that need it – again because of the rising temperatures brought by global warning.

    Yao Tandong, head of the academy’s Qinghai-Tibet Plateau Research Institute, summed it up. “The full-scale glacier shrinkage in the plateau regions will eventually lead to an ecological catastrophe,” he said.

    Comment by Doug Percival — 8 May 2006 @ 4:08 PM

  44. Eric Swanson: I am a good enough amateur geologist to be able to read the three papers, two linked by Gavin and one by you. As I read it, the Ancylus Lake drained slowly, with low hydrological head. So the drainage was not likely to have created a salinity crisis in the North Atlantic.

    [Response: Actually, that’s what it looks like to me too. But it is an interesting topic – I’ll ask around next time I’m at a relevant meeting and see what has been looked into to. – gavin]

    Comment by David B. Benson — 8 May 2006 @ 4:20 PM

  45. Re: Climate change on Jupiter. Do you think the skeptics will notice that the change was predicted with a computer model?
    (actually it is believed to be part of a 70 year cycle.)

    Comment by greg lewis — 8 May 2006 @ 9:25 PM

  46. Thought you might be interested in reading what says about preventing global warming. This Web site tries to distill the wheat from the chaff on a wide range of topics, as a public service.

    Curt Schroeder
    Regina, Saskatchewan

    Can you prevent global warming?
    [full text replaced with link]

    Comment by Curt Schroeder — 9 May 2006 @ 10:23 AM

  47. On the subject of meltwater release and thermohaline and abrupt climate change, we have the following recent paper:

    Tarasov, L. and Peltier, W.R. (2006) A calibrated deglacial drainage chronology for the North American continent: evidence of an Arctic trigger for the Younger Dryas. Quaternary Science Reviews, 25, 659-688.

    We present a new deglacial meltwater drainage chronology for the North American ice-sheet complex using a 3D glacial systems model calibrated against a large set of paleo-proxies. Results indicate that North America was responsible for a significant fraction of mwp1-a, with order 1.5 dSv or larger (100 year mean) peak discharges into both the Gulf of Mexico and the Eastern Atlantic and less than 1 dSv into the Arctic Ocean.

    Our most significant result concerns discharge into the Arctic Ocean. The largest total discharge into the Arctic Ocean (ensemble mean values of 1.0 – 2.2 dSv) occurs during the onset of the Younger Dryas. The large majority of this discharge is locally sourced with reduction of the Keewatin ice dome being the largest contributor. Given that the only outlet from the Arctic Basin at this time was via Fram Strait into the Greenland-Iceland-Norwegian Seas, we hypothesize that this pulse was the trigger for the re-organization of thermohaline circulation that is thought to have been responsible for the Younger Dryas cold interval. In contradistinction with past inferences and subject to the imperfectly constrained ice-margin chronology, we also find that the Northwest outlet likely dominated much of the post -13 ka drainage of Lake Agassiz.

    Of course, lets not forget:

    Wunsch, C. (2006) Abrupt climate change: An alternative view. Quaternary Research, 65, 191-203.

    Hypotheses and inferences concerning the nature of abrupt climate change, exemplified by the Dansgaard-Oeschger (D/O) events, are reviewed. There is little concrete evidence that these events are more than a regional Greenland phenomenon. The partial coherence of ice core d18O and CH4 is a possible exception. Claims, however, of D/O presence in most remote locations cannot be distinguished from the hypothesis that many regions are just exhibiting temporal variability in climate proxies with approximately similar frequency content. Further suggestions that D/O events in Greenland are generated by shifts in the North Atlantic ocean circulation seem highly implausible, given the weak contribution of the high latitude ocean to the meridional flux of heat. A more likely scenario is that changes in the ocean circulation are a consequence of wind shifts. The disappearance of D/O events in the Holocene coincides with the disappearance also of the Laurentide and Fennoscandian ice sheets. It is thus suggested that D/O events are a consequence of interactions of the windfield with the continental ice sheets and that better understanding of the wind field in the glacial periods is the highest priority. Wind fields are capable of great volatility and very rapid global-scale teleconnections, and they are efficient generators of oceanic circulation changes and (more speculatively) of multiple states relative to great ice sheets. Connection of D/O events to the possibility of modern abrupt climate change rests on a very weak chain of assumptions.

    I reckon you realclimate guys should discuss the Wunsch paper, particularly in light of the final line of the abstract. His paper is certainly stimulating, but like the attack on Milankovitch, I was unconvinced by his alternative.

    Comment by SteveF — 9 May 2006 @ 11:42 AM

  48. Re #46, I noted the sources of that article are Patrick Michael & Pielke.

    See, if everyone had just listened to me in 1990, and started reducing GHGs (we’ve done so by over 2/3 cost-effectively & are saving money & with a higher living standard), we’d really be on the road to mitigating GW. But, oh no, people have to take their money and burn it in their yards like so may fall leaves.

    Yes, it will take time for Sunfrost to make more refrigerators (which use 1/10 the energy), and EV companies to crank out more EVs, and Green Mountain to establish more wind farms. But 1st people have to want these things that save them money & help the earth in many more ways than simply mitigating GW. Only then will green companies step up production.

    BTW, it doesn’t cost a penny to turn off lights not in use. What I found is that there are 100s of solutions, most very small, but they do add up.

    Comment by Lynn Vincentnathan — 9 May 2006 @ 12:50 PM

  49. Re:#46 The item strikes me as a good-faith attempt at balance that fell prey to the usual journalistic pitfall; that is, it poses on one side the IPCC consensus view and on the other individual detractors like Patrick Michaels (citing 3 blog entries by him, no less — not peer-reviewed papers). Sadly, in trying to provide a service, they end up doing a disservice.

    As for the books that are the subject of this post, I have only read Flannery and parts of Kolbert as they appeared in the NYer. I would like to add my voice to those who viewed the Weather Makers favorably.

    But first, I do think that Flannery overstepped on occassion, not just in terms of his over-reliance on single scientific sources that fit his thesis, but perhaps most grievously in his reductive analysis of the genocide in Sudan. I don’t mean to dismiss the Malthusian premise entirely — no doubt it’s part of the picture — but rather to suggest that he got carried away in claiming that anthropocentric warming caused the killings directly and that the industrialized nations are culpable. All that said, his is a strong book — ambitious, concisely and passionatley argued, … a good synthesis. A polemic, yes, but he is open about that from the outset.

    Next up? Anyone at RC care to weigh in on James Lovelock’s The Revenge of Gaia?

    Comment by da silva — 9 May 2006 @ 1:50 PM

  50. Apropos the Wunsch abstract:

    Wind fields are capable of great volatility and very rapid global-scale teleconnections, and they are efficient generators of oceanic circulation changes and (more speculatively) of multiple states relative to great ice sheets. Connection of D/O events to the possibility of modern abrupt climate change rests on a very weak chain of assumptions.

    It’s worth emphasizing that there are a number of levels of “causation” for a climate flip.

    1. Rearranaging the winds and water vapor distribution strikes me as a good candidate for effecting a flip on the time scale of a few years, with water vapor content resetting the thermostat.
    2. And what usually rearranges the winds? Likely changes in SST, sea-land differences etc.
    3. Changes in SST distribution is what one gets from starting/stopping North Atlantic Current components in Labrador and Greenland Seas, capping with sea ice, etc.
    4. Among the setups for that are changes in surface salinity.

    But you can’t lose sight of how “excitable” this system is (I’m a neurophysiologist, and excitability — decision-making episodes of positive feedback usually called impulses or action potentials — are what make nerve and muscle so different from most other cell types). There is surely more than one way to trip it, even though freshening in glacial times is the easiest way to study it. In Stocker’s 100 runs of threshold straddling for 2xCO2, it suffices to just crank up the sun rather than actually modeling the greenhouse more explicitly.

    So I’d be cautious about assuming that modern episodes would require the big meltwater lakes of last time. In my biological analogy, there are probably a dozen ways of tripping the flip, each associated with a separate use or pathology. The fact that it’s excitable means that the route last time is not the only way.

    Comment by William H. Calvin — 9 May 2006 @ 3:55 PM

  51. Is there any likelihood a bloom of plankton (from a freshwater pulse, or fallout of a dust cloud full of minerals, for example) would change the temperature of the surface water (change the reflectivity, I suppose, or change how much is absorbed by making more complicated molecules for photosynthesis) — sufficient to make the water mass density change, affecting whether it sinks or not?

    Comment by Hank Roberts — 9 May 2006 @ 5:02 PM

  52. Re:50, The excitability of the Atlantic VS biology.

    Where not plate tectonics much less likely to create something agile and responsive than natural selection, the Atlantic ocean might have had the playful behavior of a kid chasing butterflies. And that is just one of many things that make your bio anology exiting.

    I am actually not aware why the atlantic overturning(conveyor) should be sensitive to altered wind patterns in the long run, provided that they does not significantly weaken the Antarctic circumpolar current or amplify arctic ice cover. For instance, since easterly winds push water northwards and westerly winds seawater southward, it is not obvious to non experts if a complete reversal of the westerlies blowing from N.America to Europe ought to make the gulf stream flow slower or faster.

    Comment by Peer — 9 May 2006 @ 7:40 PM

  53. Re #46 and #49: Unfortunately, has a history of getting its facts wrong, and of apparently sacrificing truth for some odd notion of balance. I recommend for climate questions.

    And for neurophysiology I recommend William H. Calvin (the popularizer of my favorite crackpot theory: The Throwing Madonna), although I have reservations about using biological analogies in the physical sciences. Some people (not Calvin, possibly Lovelock) have been known to go a bit overboard when following such lines of thought.

    [Response: I imagine you’re being ironic about “The Throwing Madonna.” On Calvin’s home page he states “Note that my throwing theory for language origins (last 3 essays) has nothing to do with the title essay: “The throwing madonna” essay is a parody (involving maternal heartbeat sounds!) on the typically-male theories of handedness.” Scientists will always find a lot to grouse about in books like Calvin’s or Jared Diamond’s (I’ve done some grousing myself). I’ve yet to find a professional anthropologist who thought much of Diamond’s books (not that their professionally couched theories often sound more testable to me than some of Diamond’s). I think there is a role for such books which spark interest in science and stimulate the imagination. If they serve to get readers interested in learning more they’ve done their work. They just shouldn’t be confused with weighty scientific tomes which obey a high standard of rigor; I am sure their authors don’t intend them as such. Now the question: is a book like Flannery’s in the same category as a book like “Guns Germs and Steel,” or is it something else? I feel that a book with an advocacy and polemical role has to take especial care with facts and inferences, and more clearly delineate where the author is being imaginative. –raypierre]

    Comment by S Molnar — 9 May 2006 @ 9:50 PM

  54. Re 9; Leggatt’s The Carbon War. It is well worth reading but hard to find. If you ring Amita at Solar Century +44 (0)20 7803 0100 she has copies available for a fiver (that’s £5 sterling). Bargain!

    Douglas Coker

    Comment by Douglas Coker — 10 May 2006 @ 11:16 AM

  55. One of my favorites is still “The Next 100 years” by Jonathan Weiner ( of Pulitzer-winning “Beak of the Finch” fame). It’s out of print, and a bit dated, but as a lively introduction to the basic nature of the problem I think it’s still a great read, if you can find it in a used book store or on Alibris. I keep hoping some enlightened publisher will cut a deal that might encourage Jonathan to do some minor updates and re-release the book.

    Comment by raypierre — 10 May 2006 @ 12:01 PM

  56. As background reading for those trying to follow the global warming debate, I would recommend “On B*******” by Harry Frankfurt, available from I have not printed the full title being unsure of the obscenity standards maintained by this site. A short essay written by an eminent philospher, with the modest goal of simply defining the concept, I started it assuming that it was a joke but ended up reading it three times in one night.

    Comment by Isaac Held — 10 May 2006 @ 2:33 PM

  57. The Gulf Dead Zone

    “Scientific investigations in the Gulf of Mexico have documented a large area of the Louisiana continental shelf with seasonally-depleted oxygen levels (< 2mg/l). Most aquatic species cannot survive at such low oxygen levels. The oxygen depletion, referred to as hypoxia, begins in late spring, reaches a maximum in midsummer, and disappears in the fall. After the Mississippi River flood of 1993, the spatial extent of this zone more than doubled in size, to over 18,000 km2, and has remained about that size each year through midsummer 1997. The hypoxic zone forms in the middle of the most important commercial and recreational fisheries in the coterminous United States and could threaten the economy of this region of the Gulf.

    Nutrient over-enrichment from anthropogenic sources is one of the major stresses impacting coastal ecosystems. Generally, excess nutrients lead to increased algal production and increased availability of organic carbon within an ecosystem, a process known as eutrophication. There are multiple sources of excessive nutrients in watersheds, both point and non-point, and the transport and delivery of these nutrients is a complex process which is controlled by a range of factors. These include not only the chemistry, but also the ecology, hydrology, and geomorphology of the various portions of a watershed and that of the receiving system. Both the near-coastal hydrodynamics that generate water column stratification and the nutrients that fuel primary productivity contribute to the formation of hypoxic zones. Human activities on land can add excess nutrients to coastal areas or compromise the ability of ecosystems to remove nutrients either from the landscape or from the waterways themselves.”

    Naturally, an algae based biodiesle industry based around New Orleans would clean a lot of this up.

    Comment by Matt — 10 May 2006 @ 2:43 PM

  58. Regarding raypierre’s question in the response to #53: is a book like Flannery’s in the same category as a book like “Guns Germs and Steel,” or is it something else?

    I think it is in the same class as Diamond’s Collapse, certainly. Both authors are good synthesizers who sometimes stray into oversimplification in the interest of supporting their theses. In fact, Diamond had a similar argument in Collapse (about the Rwandan genocide) to Flannery’s take on Sudan. In both cases, the arguments were interesting but overly simplistic. Any critical reader will think “yes, but…”

    Still, what makes their books compelling is the line of argument and the passion they bring to it.

    To the second part of RP’s question: I feel that a book with an advocacy and polemical role has to take especial care with facts and inferences, and more clearly delineate where the author is being imaginative.

    It would be nice. But it goes against the very nature of a polemic, doesn’t it. It’s a bit like saying that trial attorneys should be better about seeing their opponent’s point of view. Had Rachel Carson paused in Silent Spring to offer a sober defense of the judicious use of DDT in fighting malaria, would her book have had the same impact? It seems doubtful.

    It seems to me one of the paradoxes of public policy discussion: The most reasonable viewpoints are lost in the noise, while the noisiest (or at least, the most forcefully argued) get all the attention. That’s not to defend playing fast and loose with the facts. Just an observation.

    Interested to hear other views.

    Comment by da silva — 10 May 2006 @ 3:56 PM

  59. Based on the recommendation here, I bought and read Kolbert’s book. Being a regular visitor to RealClimate, I didn’t find any major surprises in her book. But, basically, I found it depressing. It was an explanation of things gone wrong, without much vision of how to move forward.

    For example, Kolbert spends some time describing efforts to reduce emissions in Burlington, Vermont. She then points out that all the greenhouse gases saved in Burlington over several decades could be dumped back into the atmosphere in two hours by China. I’m sure she was perfectly correct. And it’s a good illustration of the size of the problem. But it made me feel like crawling into bed and sticking my head under a pillow.

    It’s a shame that Flannery made the mistakes that you outlined in the review. I think the reason that his book has been more popular is that it both frightens the reader and gives them hope…rather like Gore’s presentation. “The Weather Makers” left me feeling driven to do something. Kolbert’s book didn’t do that for me, although it was clearly well-researched, well written, and accurate.

    BTW … Re 49 – da silva – check the RC index. There has been a review of Lovelock’s book.

    Comment by Catherine Jansen — 13 May 2006 @ 9:13 PM

  60. Re #55 “One of my favorites is still “The Next 100 years” by Jonathan Weiner”. I concur with Raypierre’s mention.

    Nice read to place anthropgenic climate change in the context of Earth systems.

    Sat on my shelf for a couple of years; I am through the first third now… (i) The story of Keeling breaking away from the Christmas party with a grad student to pack the crate for the analyzer bound to the South Pole was amusing, and (ii), weaving the processes of the biosphere to thte tangibles of metric proces works to trigger thought.

    As one who likes the outdoors and solo adventures, Weiner’s book resonates with me… I guess because of the implied humility that should be placed on human endeavors…

    Comment by Jim Redden — 14 May 2006 @ 6:35 PM

  61. Here’s the American Scientist April review of “Thin Ice” via Dr. Lonnie Thompson’s web page. Note, it’s a PDF file:

    Comment by Hank Roberts — 15 May 2006 @ 8:30 PM

  62. Re 24
    [Response: Hmmm. I wonder why only five weather stations out of ~6000 were chosen… -gavin]
    Because in all probability there are only five rural, continental US stations with data from 1905 to 2003
    which can be guaranteed to have not to have suffered changes in building cover, vegetation, irrigation,..etc
    However there are other stations worldwide fulfulling the same criteria and I have come to the conclusion that
    they all closely resemble each other, having eliminated all anthroprogenic effects apart from CO2

    Comment by Bryn Hughes — 19 May 2006 @ 10:47 AM

  63. Further to 62
    Further researches have revealed that there are indeed only 5 stations in the USA and not much more than 20 other stations worldwide fulfilling the conditions listed. Yet as stated they are guaranteed to have not to have suffered changes in building cover, vegetation, irrigation,..etc
    Temperature Graphs of their 5 year mean are remarkably similar which shows that they are all being subjected to Global Warming in the the same way .However the temperature rise is less than that currently accepted,corresponding in recent years to the satellite and radiosonde data.

    Comment by Bryn Hughes — 19 May 2006 @ 4:09 PM

  64. Tim Flannery’s book “the weather makers ” is a very good read for the average person, and I am sure that is who its written for. Tim Flannery works as the headed of the museum in south australia and in this his main job is introducing the sciences to the general public, not to experts in each particular field, something i am sure he could also do. But i certainly enjoyed his book and very highly recommend it to its targeted readers .

    Indeed my reading of his book was what motivated me to find and read your deeper articles. I am quite sure if I had started with meaty tough reading I would probably lost interest . This I think is why he has been so very very much loved in SA for his work at the museum . Its user/public friendly, and very understandable, for the general public, NEVER MEANT FOR SCIENTISTS ???

    Comment by mal fabian — 27 May 2006 @ 8:10 AM

  65. Dear sir,

    I am wondering when you are going to review Marcel Leroux’s “Global Warming Myth or Reality” subtitled the Erring Ways of Climatology” recently published by Springer Praxis. Since this book is written by a sceptical French climatoligist who has no connection to the oil industry or the various liberterian think tanks and who claims indisputably, that the “greenhouse effect or global warming scenario is a myth” fostered on the general public by so called scientists, I would be very interested in hearing your rebuttal, because I am still in the process of forming an informed opinion.

    [Response: I’ll review (almost) any climate book that people send me. I draw the line at spending my own money on trying to keep up with the various (and repetitive) skeptical rants though. – gavin]

    Comment by Michael Lang — 3 Jun 2006 @ 1:30 PM

  66. Re #65: Michael Lang, I encourage you to vist Coby’s site, “A Few Things Ill Considered”. There is a link to it in the sidebar.

    [Response: Coby provides an excellent summary to the kind of arguments that are likely to appear in a book with a title like Leroux’s. I’m not aware that Coby has specifically discussed the Leroux book, though. I have limited time, and given Leroux’s paltry credentials and reputation, unless somebody points out to me some new argument in his book that is different from the others skeptics have been trotting around, I’m not going to spend any time on it. –raypierre]

    Comment by David B. Benson — 3 Jun 2006 @ 2:10 PM

  67. Also re 65:

    I have never heard of this Marcel Leroux before. The Praxis publisher’s web site claims he has published over 100 articles in international journals, but I looked over ALL the M. Leroux’s that Science Citation Index could find and these are the only articles that deal with climate or meteorology:

    1. Leroux, M
    El Nino
    RECHERCHE, (310): 6-7 JUN 1998

    2. Leroux, M
    Climate models
    RECHERCHE, (300): 7-7 JUL-AUG 1997

    3. LEZINE, AM; LEROUX, M; TURON, JL; et al.

    4. LEROUX, M
    RECHERCHE, 26 (276): 479-479 MAY 1995

    QUATERNARY RESEARCH, 41 (3): 390-395 MAY 1994

    6. LEROUX, M
    GLOBAL AND PLANETARY CHANGE, 7 (1-3): 69-93 MAY 1993

    7. FAURE, H; LEROUX, M

    “Recherche” is the in-house newsletter of the CNRS (the French National Science Foundation), I believe. Global and Planetary Change is a very minor journal. This guy is no heavy-hitter so far as climate research goes. He’s at one of the more minor CNRS labs in France. Given the title of the book (i.e. anything that claims global warming may be a “myth” is bound to be scientifically unreliable) and the $129 cost (limiting its likely readership), I doubt we’ll be reviewing it anytime soon. The only mystery is why Praxis, which had the good judgement to publish Rasmus’ book on solar variability, would get taken in by something like this.

    If you are looking to form your opinion and want something more quantitative than the books Gavin reviewed, the IPCC Third Assessment Report (WG-I) would be a much better place to start, as would David Archer’s book (Blackwell).

    Comment by raypierre — 3 Jun 2006 @ 2:35 PM

  68. From the point of view of a physicist who wants to learn more climate science, what do you recommend as a good book? In particular, I found the book “Elementary Climate Physics” by F.W. Taylor on Any comments on this book?

    [Response: Golly, there are a lot of books on climate out there. This isn’t one I’m familiar with. If you can find a used copy around, I recommend Houghton The Physics of Atmospheres . For something less condensed, try Murray Salby’s book, or Dennis Hartman’s book. My own climate book is designed to bring undergraduate physics majors up to speed on climate really fast; there are some draft chapters on my web site, but I’m several months behind on writing, so it’s unlikely to go to press much sooner than a year from now. –raypierre]

    Comment by Joel Shore — 3 Jun 2006 @ 3:17 PM

  69. Actually if the Amazon excerpt from the first chapter of the Leroux book is anything to go by, there is nothing to review. It is simply a polemic. How any publisher with a straight face can call this a ‘hard and dispassionate look’ at the science is a wonder to behold…

    Comment by Gavin — 3 Jun 2006 @ 3:25 PM

  70. Re #68: Thanks, Ray! I’ll try to check into those.

    Re #65, 67, and 69: I agree that the excerpt from the introduction to the Leroux book reads like a rant…and one that seems to be pretty stream-of-consciousness at that. By the way, Leroux is one of the gang-of-60 signers of that “Open Kyoto to Debate” letter to Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper from back in April ( ). He is listed as “professor emeritus of climatology, University of Lyon, France; former director of Laboratory of Climatology, Risks and Environment, CNRS”.

    Comment by Joel Shore — 3 Jun 2006 @ 3:42 PM

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