{"id":590,"date":"2008-08-19T02:02:25","date_gmt":"2008-08-19T07:02:25","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.realclimate.org\/index.php\/archives\/2008\/08\/are-geologists-different\/langswitch_lang\/in"},"modified":"2008-12-01T10:20:17","modified_gmt":"2008-12-01T15:20:17","slug":"are-geologists-different","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.realclimate.org\/index.php\/archives\/2008\/08\/are-geologists-different\/","title":{"rendered":"Are geologists different?"},"content":{"rendered":"
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\"rock\"The International Geological Congress<\/a> (IGC) is sometimes referred to as the geologists’ equivalent of the Olympic Games<\/em> and is an extremely large gathering of geologists from all over the world, taking place at 4-year intervals. This time, the IGC took place in Lillestr\u00f8m<\/em>, a small place just outside Oslo, Norway (August 6-14). The congress was opened by the Norwegian King (before he continued to the real games in Beijing), and was attended by some 6,000 scientists from 113 countries. Even the Danish Minister of Energy & Climate<\/em> participated in a panel discussion on climate change. In other words, this was a serious meeting.<\/p>\n

<\/p>\n

opera.jpg I didn’t attend the meeting myself, but the scientific programme for the session on climate<\/a>, shows that the ‘climate contrarians’ were quite well represented. The organizers probably wanted to give room to \u201cother views\u201d. Together with web cast of the panel discussion on climate change<\/a> (by the way, you may need Windows to view this because of the video format…), the proportion of attendees with a skeptical attitude to the notion of anthropogenic global warming appeared to be notably higher than in other conferences, such as the European Geosciences Union<\/a> or European Meteorological Society<\/a>, or indeed the scientific literature. So be it.<\/p>\n

Svensmark was there, even though he’s not a geologist, and said that he didn’t understand what he was doing on the panel. He didn’t say much during the panel debate, apart from that clouds are not well described by GCMs (which is true and discussed in the latest IPCC report), and that the 90% confidence in the human influence on recent trends is derived only from models (not true<\/a>). There is an irony in that, whereas detailed microphysics in clouds are not well understood (hence the uncertainties in the GCMs), Svensmark’s own hypothesis hinges entirely on the cloud response to cosmic rays (which is even less well understood). <\/p>\n

Robert Carter said a great deal more than Svensmark on the panel. He made a point of the last couple of years being cold. But he did not appear to understand Jansen’s explanation of the difference between trends and natural variability (see here<\/a>). What really struck me was not who was saying what, but the intellectual level of discussion: the debate often got stuck at misunderstood trivialities which for a long time have been regarded as solved or explained in the climate research community. When you keep starting at square one, you’ll never make much progress.<\/p>\n

Other statements did not have a scientific basis (e.g. Morner popped out from the crowd and said that the sea levels are not rising – not true – and then saluted the panel). Thus the debate seemed to be a step backwards<\/em> towards confusion rather than a progress towards resolution. <\/p>\n

What is going on? Is there a higher proportion of geologists that have a completely different view on climate change, or was this a biased representation of the community? The thought of stifling a scientific debate by insisting on outrageous or ignorant claims also has struck me.<\/p>\n

Update:<\/strong> Marc Roberts<\/a> sent along this mildly relevant cartoon:<\/p>\n

<\/a><\/p>\n\n<\/div> ","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

The International Geological Congress (IGC) is sometimes referred to as the geologists’ equivalent of the Olympic Games and is an extremely large gathering of geologists from all over the world, taking place at 4-year intervals. This time, the IGC took place in Lillestr\u00f8m, a small place just outside Oslo, Norway (August 6-14). The congress was […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":11,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_exactmetrics_skip_tracking":false,"_exactmetrics_sitenote_active":false,"_exactmetrics_sitenote_note":"","_exactmetrics_sitenote_category":0,"_genesis_hide_title":false,"_genesis_hide_breadcrumbs":false,"_genesis_hide_singular_image":false,"_genesis_hide_footer_widgets":false,"_genesis_custom_body_class":"","_genesis_custom_post_class":"","_genesis_layout":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[1,26,34],"tags":[],"class_list":{"0":"post-590","1":"post","2":"type-post","3":"status-publish","4":"format-standard","6":"category-climate-science","7":"category-rc-forum","8":"category-skeptics","9":"entry"},"aioseo_notices":[],"post_mailing_queue_ids":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.realclimate.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/590","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.realclimate.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.realclimate.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.realclimate.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/11"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.realclimate.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=590"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.realclimate.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/590\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.realclimate.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=590"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.realclimate.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=590"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.realclimate.org\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=590"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}