RealClimate logo


Forced Responses: Aug 2020

Filed under: — group @ 1 August 2020

This is the bimonthly thread on climate solutions. Climate Science discussions should go here.

305 Responses to “Forced Responses: Aug 2020”

  1. 251
    Al Bundy says:

    Kia: You have to redo them every year

    AB: if you do it wrong. The correct way?
    Make a frame out of 3/4″ PVC cold water plumbing pipe. Paint if desired.
    Wrap frame with exterior grade storm window shrink film, with the exposed seams on one side. Add weatherstripping to that side.

    Screw your new double glazed exterior storm window into the window trim. Do not use the screws to snug it down. Instead, use your hand to fully compress the weatherstripping at the screw and then let the weatherstripping snug things up.
    Reinforcing the edges is an idea (clear packing tape is an option, but it might yellow over time). Rubber washers are an even better idea.

    This technique results in removable storm windows that are more than twice as efficient and don’t block egress.

  2. 252
    zebra says:

    Gotta Love Those Monopolies

    https://cleantechnica.com/2020/09/03/alabama-powers-discriminatory-solar-charge-moves-forward-gets-increased/

    But, according to the folks here at RC, that’s the only way to do things. If you switched to a different model, like virtual grids with smart meters, that would be…you know…different. Scary to think about!

  3. 253
    Killian says:

    BPL, you’ve become worse than nigel has ever been. You don’t even pretend you aren’t being a fucktard.

    Useless.

    nigel: Yet another straw man. I said, CLEARLY, not financially. In terms of markets and finance? No, there will be no supply and demand because there will be Commonses. Zero competition for anything, ergo, no market.

    That extends, fractally, all the way up to the bio-region. There will be decision-making, but no markets and market forces. That is what designing to needs means. We meet needs. Everybody owns everything. What need is there for markets? Capitalism DOES NOT do that in any way, shape or form. Capitalism is pure competition. People die every day exactly because Capitalism has no interest in meeting needs. That is not what it’s intent nor its goal are. It is not what Capitalism does. Gov’t provides some brakes on that – in some countries, but not much in the US and other Anglo “shithole countries.”

    But, no, no supply and demand. Everything shared. There is no other way to have a long-term sustainable society. Every other form of government leads to disrupted supplies and imbalanced systems as energy in the form of profit and wealth exits the flow and does not return.

    We will remember how to share, or we will collapse and maybe face extinction. Until you understand *why* this is so, you will continue to flail. All of you.

  4. 254
    Mal Adapted says:

    Extinction 2.0:

    Things being framed like the “Denial and Alarmism in the Near-Term Extinction and Collapse Debate:” are far too managed, manipulated and massaged for my liking.

    Too much facade. Too much self-imposed ignorance in those kinds of ‘flacid/fake/polite’ discussions. Arguing about arguing while learning nothing, changing nothing in how people thinking and act, imo.

    Heh. At least he didn’t say “imho”. Looks like yet another self-enhancing individual has joined us. With reciprocal scorn, I merely link my reply to a previous scornful newcomer ;^). Is more still the merrier?

    Even if a smartphone is your last link to the global economy, you’re still a soft denier.

  5. 255

    K 253: BPL, you’ve become worse than nigel has ever been. You don’t even pretend you aren’t being a fucktard.

    BPL: What a clever argument, Killian! I’m sure you convinced a lot of people with that kind of logic.

  6. 256
    Al Bundy says:

    Killian: Until you understand *why* this is so, you will continue to flail. All of you.

    AB: Project much? Name a single area in your life where you aren’t 100% flailing.

    My life is going grandly. EP is elbow deep into his thing and so has no extra bandwidth…

    You can’t, well, I’m not going to out your life, but please stop using this site as a fantasyland where you aren’t who you are.
    I was like you. Still am to an extent. So I can say authoritatively that you have no chance until you shed some of that rage.

  7. 257
    Killian says:

    254 Mal Adapted: Extinction 2.0:

    Things being framed like the “Denial and Alarmism in the Near-Term Extinction and Collapse Debate:” are far too managed, manipulated and massaged for my liking.

    Too much facade. Too much self-imposed ignorance in those kinds of ‘flacid/fake/polite’ discussions. Arguing about arguing while learning nothing, changing nothing in how people thinking and act, imo.

    Heh. At least he didn’t say “imho”. Looks like yet another self-enhancing individual has joined us. With reciprocal scorn, I merely link my reply to a previous scornful newcomer ;^). Is more still the merrier?

    Even if a smartphone is your last link to the global economy, you’re still a soft denier.

    Huh? Of the two of you, you’re the soft denier, MA, constantly downplaying the risk.

  8. 258
    zebra says:

    KIA #249 About Storm Windows,

    I’m commenting for the sake of all the hypothetical lurkers who might foolishly listen to this suggestion, even though it comes from KIA, because it is a safety issue.

    In many cases, windows provide the only means of emergency egress. If you screw plexiglass over the inside or outside of the frame, you would not be able to escape a fire from your bedroom, for example.

    Flimsy is better.

  9. 259
    nigelj says:

    Zebra @158 yes, it would be unsafe if you screwed a plexiglass panel with its sub frame over the entire window including the opening sash so the sash cant open. But you could make a separate plexiglass panel and sub frame for each opening sash, maybe using a small timber batten or aluminium section. I mean only an idiot would do one huge panel over everything.

  10. 260

    In many cases, windows provide the only means of emergency egress. If you screw plexiglass over the inside or outside of the frame, you would not be able to escape a fire from your bedroom, for example.

    I’ve built several double-pane storm windows using heat-shrink film as the convection barrier and e.g. poplar as the frame.  You can use stick-on foam weatherstripping as both the sealant around the edges and the friction material to hold said window in place.

    The first time I did this, I added two heat-shrink layers to a single-pane doorwall (one inside, one out), insulating both the fixed and moving parts independently.  My living room became VASTLY more comfortable in the winter.

    My most recent attempt at this ran afoul of a Ryobi router table that would not make straight cuts.

  11. 261
    Mr. Know It All says:

    258 – zebra
    You are correct, you have to make sure you don’t block an emergency egress window.

    In other CC mitigation news, the Trump administration is going to pull Cal Governor Newsom’s rump up off the hot sand of green energy inadequacy:

    https://townhall.com/tipsheet/bronsonstocking/2020/09/06/bailout-feds-to-the-rescue-in-californias-power-crisis-n2575757

  12. 262
    Killian says:

    Re 255 Barton Paul Levenson: 253: BPL, you’ve become worse than nigel has ever been. You don’t even pretend you aren’t being a fucktard.

    BPL: What a clever argument

    It’s not an argument, dumbass, it’s an observation.

  13. 263

    K 262: It’s not an argument, dumbass, it’s an observation.

    BPL: No kidding, really? That whooshing sound was my post going over your head, apparently.

  14. 264
    William B Jackson says:

    #261 In reality the Trump administration will accomplish nothing as is their wont they are too busy screwing up the covid 19 response. 191,000 dead and counting, at least a third of those dead can be laid at the feet of Trump!

  15. 265
    Mr. Know It All says:

    264 – William BJ
    “In reality the Trump administration will accomplish nothing as is their wont they are too busy screwing up the covid 19 response. 191,000 dead and counting, at least a third of those dead can be laid at the feet of Trump!”

    With typical Trump efficiency, and without spending a dime of taxpayer money, they rescued the people of California after the state called begging for help due to no electricity. They passed an order stating people are free to use generators for emergency power. BOOM! Problem solved on the DAY help was requested. Next problem!

    Not sure why you went after Trump on the virus. That’s been debunked for months. He acted quickly to ban travel from nations at risk of spreading it to the USA, and for that he was called a xenophobe and racist by D leaders. It’s documented – try to deny it:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFCzoXhNM6c

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnuOgXX8H4A

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eke456lEM-4

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JZ0Ruh89f0

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6mGKqu3qHE

    In other mitigation news, here in the great Pacific Northwest we have a lot of smoke from forest fires caused by decades of failure to manage the forests properly. BUT, as with all things in life, there is opposition in all things. The bad smoke is having the good effect of providing shade for cooling. Today was forecast to be mid 90s here, but smoke was so thick it only got to mid 70s. Perhaps we are being taught some lessons in sun blocking and cooling? Fortunately we don’t get much PV grid power which would have been adversely affected by the smoke.

  16. 266
    nigelj says:

    KIA @265 is so hilarious yet so sad as well. Trying to make excuses for Trumps hopeless response to the virus by quoting something irrelevant on electricity, and claiming Trump closed the border early. He didn’t close it early enough, obviously given the numbers of infections, and he needed to do much more than close the border.

    Trump needed clarity and to set a good example and ensure effective lockdowns were enforced. Instead he failed to do this. Trump gave mixed messages about how dangerous the virus was and refused to socially distance and wear a mask (until very recently and too late) and Trump encouraged the States to open up too early. People get a message from this – the virus doesn’t matter so they dont wear masks or socially distance either. And as a result of all this, the virus got out of control with no end in sight, and the economy is a mess as well.

    Of course hes doing even worse with climate change. The guys dumber than a rock.

  17. 267
  18. 268
    William B Jackson says:

    #265 what a load of nonsense, next you will have us with our brooms sweeping the underbrush and leaves. I make no claim to genius nor am I a scientist but I see through your hot air.

  19. 269
    William B Jackson says:

    # As too Trump acting quickly etc. we have his own words showing he knowingly lied about his stated reasons for inaction. We know that when he was convincing his followers that it was all a hoax he knew it for the lie it so clearly was and is. All those who have died from basing their actions on his word can be blamed on him!

  20. 270
    David B. Benson says:

    Here are 10 helpful charts assigning responsibility for our current dilemma:
    https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/21428525/climate-change-west-coast-fires-cause-charts

    One of the few who remind us of the historical responsibility of Europe and North America.

  21. 271

    KIA 265: Not sure why you went after Trump on the virus.

    BPL: Maybe because we have more cases than anyone in the world, Trump’s initial response was to call it a hoax, he encouraged people not to wear masks, he held rallies where people assembled without masks, he’s promoted fake cures, and he’s given aid and credence to pseudoscientists who are doing their best to make things worse? Could that have something to do with it?

  22. 272
    patrick027 says:

    re zebra 209 re my 203-205 (202 is a repeat of the 1st part of 203) http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2020/08/forced-responses-aug-2020/comment-page-5/#comment-775652

    actually – note I was assuming adjusting for inflation (this includes the interest rates) – my comments 203-204 don’t demonstrate the problem you refer to, although it is true that money is not the same as the wealth it is traded for.

  23. 273
    patrick027 says:

    re zebra 209 re my 203-205 (202 is a repeat of the 1st part of 203) http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2020/08/forced-responses-aug-2020/comment-page-5/#comment-775652

    actually – note I was assuming adjusting for inflation (this includes the interest rates) – my comments 203-204 don’t demonstrate the problem you refer to, although it is true that money is not the same as the wealth it is traded for.

    Mainly my point in 203 was that interest (in real $ terms) is entirely compatible with zero growth (and presumably a shrinking economy as well). Interest of course depends on time-preference/ future discounting/ risk and future uncertainty https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_preference

  24. 274
    patrick027 says:

    … regarding future uncertainty – 1 marshmallow today or 1+x at time t? what if I die before t? What if they stop making marshmallows? OTOH, what if marshmallows are better in the future? …. Well, there is the matter of the value of one thing depending on other things – and the farther out plans of a given level of detail go, the less likely they’ll work out.

    But I would argue that uncertainty is reduced on the societal level, and to some extent can be deliberately reduced; thus the future discount rate applied to assessing a CO2 climate/acidification tax/ etc. should be lower than what individuals deal with…

  25. 275
    patrick027 says:

    re zebra (cont) regarding what Ray Ladbury was saying – my 205 addressed the matter of competitive growth; otherwise I’m not sure where the problem is; basically –

  26. 276
    patrick027 says:

    – of course an economy could be steady state (averaged over fluctuations – ie. economic weather) in principle, but people will try new things sometimes – there may be innovations and cultural changes, eventually evolution … which could increase the overall efficiency and lead to a sustained larger size (episodic-logarithmic-asymptotic growth), but there could also be bubbles that lead to waste and downturns …

    I would say that we shouldn’t mandate the economy’s size per se but rather pursue policies of protection of the natural ecosystem, conservation of resources – ie. sustainability – and balances among freedom and justice, prosperity and equality, security and compassion etc… regulating the market to manage bubbles, OSHA-EPA consumer protections etc…

    I’m not sure where your model was proposed. I looked for it back in the June comments, … I learned about the iodine pit (some nuclear power plants are more prone to power fluctuations due to the dynamics of nuclear poisons, so lets design them with natural frequencies of 1/24 hr and harmonics to cover the duck curve – JK), way too much about the energetics of CH4 (of course it’s not going to be 100% efficient. Can it be good enough?)… and a claim about capacity factor of solar power, which leads me to…

  27. 277
    zebra says:

    patrick027 #273,

    Patrick, I think your comments illustrate my point because you ignore that distinction between money and what you call “wealth”, and you need to better characterize “growth”.

    I don’t think you are as far off as Ray Ladbury, but you have to look at actual different scenarios. My assertion is that in the case of a stable population with relatively abundant resources, “growth” in consumption (e.g. burning fossil fuels) is not inevitable, in fact it is unlikely.

    What you are doing is similar to Ray because you assume things like inflation, which are, obviously, part of the current paradigm which is driven by population growth. So, interest may indeed be functional in different conditions, but you would have to show how it would work.

    In my scenario, for example, the housing stock would be in some kind of equilibrium. How does that affect inflation? What kind of loan would you take out to buy a house? Would you buy a house at all?

  28. 278
  29. 279
    Mr. Know It All says:

    266 – nigelj and 271 – BPL
    nigelj: “… He didn’t close it early enough, obviously given the numbers of infections, and he needed to do much more than close the border.”

    He closed the border in January to China and to Europe and others a little later. He was called racist/xenophobe by leftists for doing it. The CDC, NIH, etc issued guidelines on how to flatten the curve. The states did as they saw fit based on those guidelines – that is how our system works, and we were successful in flattening the curve to prevent overload of the hospitals. Mission accomplished! As of a couple of weeks ago, CDC reports only 9,210 had died of COVID 19; the rest died of other issues, not COVID. Thus, on a per-capita basis the USA has perhaps the lowest death rate of any nation.
    https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/08/shock-report-week-cdc-quietly-updated-covid-19-numbers-9210-americans-died-covid-19-alone-rest-serious-illnesses/

    271 – BPL
    ” Maybe because we have more cases than anyone in the world, Trump’s initial response was to call it a hoax, he encouraged people not to wear masks, he held rallies where people assembled without masks, he’s promoted fake cures, and he’s given aid and credence to pseudoscientists who are doing their best to make things worse? Could that have something to do with it?”

    Joe Biden is that you? Is your memory giving you trouble? His initial response was to close the border to China in January. It was the scientist, Dr. Fauci, who said we don’t need masks, not Trump:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=11&v=PRa6t_e7dgI&feature=emb_logo

    Perhaps you were not aware, but people in the USA are free to wear or not wear a mask as they see fit, whether they are at a rally or not. If you’d like to live in a country where that is not the case, may I recommend Australia:

    https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/australia-full-scale-pilot-test-new-world-order

    He has not promoted any fake cures. HCQ + azithromycin, etc is 100% proven to help many people if used early in the process – again this is per peer-reviewed scientific articles AND by practicing medical doctors AROUND THE WORLD. How Trump figured this out I before anyone else I don’t know – he may be a germ-o-phobe and so perhaps he has investigated cures for the flu previously in his life – but that’s just a guess. He is after all, a genius; how else could he have whooped Hillary, the Clinton machine, the DNC, and 16 Republican candidates in 2016?

    https://publichealth.yale.edu/news-article/26218/

    Joe, if your memory issues, and your TDS continue to make you write silly things, I suggest you seek qualified medical attention, STAT! Be best, Dr. MKIA

  30. 280
    nigelj says:

    Mr. Know It All @279

    “He (Trump) closed the border in January to China and to Europe and others a little later.”

    So what? It was still clearly too late, because it didn’t contain the spread of infections. They were already well seeded in the community. We closed our borders when the country only has about 200 infections IN TOTAL, so effectively very early where it counts.

    “He was called racist/xenophobe by leftists for doing it. ”

    Some leftists maybe. Prove it was a majority. Show me proof.

    “The CDC, NIH, etc issued guidelines on how to flatten the curve. The states did as they saw fit based on those guidelines – that is how our system works, and we were successful in flattening the curve to prevent overload of the hospitals.”

    I know how you system works. Many of the States were too slow to act. New Yorks hospitals were pretty much overwhelmed.

    The problem is Trump discouraged the States from taking action and encouraged them to lift restrictions very early. Its likely some of the governers listened to him because some States were too slow to act and otheres did lift restrictions earlier than for example Europe did. You have to get infections down below a certain threshold before lifting a lockdown otherwise the virus just bounces right back which is whats happened to you guys (sadly to say).

    “As of a couple of weeks ago, CDC reports only 9,210 had died of COVID 19; the rest died of other issues, not COVID. Thus, on a per-capita basis the USA has perhaps the lowest death rate of any nation.”

    What a stupidly ignorant head in the sand statement. Their bodies were weakened by various issues but they would have lived for years. Because they were weakened covid pushed them over the edge. If not for covid they would not have died.

    “It was the scientist, Dr. Fauci, who said we don’t need masks, not Trump:”

    Blah blah. Trump went on rubbishing mask wearing, and refusing to wear one after Fauci came around to the need to wear masks. And when has Trump ever listened to experts?

    “He (Trump)has not promoted any fake cures. ”

    Bullshit . Trump has promoted investigating injecting disnfectant which is insanely stupid:

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52407177

    “HCQ + azithromycin, etc is 100% proven to help many people if used early in the process – again this is per peer-reviewed scientific articles AND by practicing medical doctors AROUND THE WORLD. ”

    BS and an uncited claim. Numerous trials have found HCQ alone doesnt work for covid and most of your own hospitals have abandoned using it:

    https://www.wired.com/story/hydroxychloroquine-still-doesnt-do-anything-new-data-shows/

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/07/21/fact-check-hydroxychloroquine-hasnt-helped-covid-19-studies-show/5407547002/

    https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/06/three-big-studies-dim-hopes-hydroxychloroquine-can-treat-or-prevent-covid-19

    I could not find any clinical trials showing HCQ plus other drugs works. Some trials are in progress:

    https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/nih-begins-clinical-trial-hydroxychloroquine-azithromycin-treat-covid-19

    The following drugs do actually work or are under investigation:

    https://theconversation.com/which-drugs-and-therapies-are-proven-to-work-and-which-ones-dont-for-covid-19-141513

    https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/expert-answers/coronavirus-drugs/faq-20485627

    It took me about 60 seconds to find all this information. Its consistent with what our health authorities have said.

    “He is after all, a genius; how else could he have whooped Hillary, the Clinton machine, the DNC, and 16 Republican candidates in 2016?”

    By lying through his teeth, and because Hilary was always a bad choice for candidate, and most Americans are gullible. It looks like hes having a much harder job with Joe Biden, sleepy Joe or not.

    Stop being an idiot.

  31. 281
    nigelj says:

    Zebra says “What you are doing is similar to Ray because you assume things like inflation, which are, obviously, part of the current paradigm which is driven by population growth.”

    Wow thats a new one on me. I thought inflation was caused by things like too much money chasing too few goods, according to economists and a few well known historical examples. I guess they just arent as smart as Zebra (sarc).

  32. 282

    KIA 279: Perhaps you were not aware, but people in the USA are free to wear or not wear a mask as they see fit, whether they are at a rally or not.

    BPL: They’re free to jump off buildings, too, but that doesn’t make it a smart thing to do.

    KIA: He has not promoted any fake cures. HCQ + azithromycin, etc is 100% proven to help many people if used early in the process

    BPL: Lies like this are killing people. Stop spreading lies, KIA.

  33. 283

    KIA, 279:

    Mission accomplished! As of a couple of weeks ago, CDC reports only 9,210 had died of COVID 19; the rest died of other issues, not COVID. Thus, on a per-capita basis the USA has perhaps the lowest death rate of any nation.

    What arrant bullshit! If you seriously think that other nations couldn’t put the same thumb on the scales to manipulate the statistics, you’re quite deluded. (Indeed, I rather suspect some have, just less obviously and stupidly.)

    This meme that only the 9,210 “really” died of Covid is quite frankly idiotic.

    https://www.factcheck.org/2020/09/cdc-did-not-admit-only-6-of-recorded-deaths-from-covid-19/

  34. 284
    Ray Ladbury says:

    Mr. Kia@279 quotes the Gateway Pundit as an authority and claims that COVID has only killed <10000 people. Dude, you owe me a new gullibility meter. The 9210 listed did not have additional comorbidities listed as contributing to their deaths.
    1) That does not mean that they did not have additional conditions that contributed.
    2) Almost any disease will have additional comorbities that contribute to its mortality.
    3) Almost all of us-certainly, almost all of us over 50–have comorbidities. Got cancer? That's a comorbidity? High blood pressure? You, too. High cholesterol? Sorry. And on and on.

    And another recent study found that 75% of those that survive COVID wind up with significant damage to major organs. This is NOT the flu. This is NOT a disease you want to get.

    Mr. KIA, your comorbidity is confirmation bias. I mean Beltway Pundit is run by Jim Hoft, universally acknowledged as the stupidest man on the Internet–and consider the competition for that title. So what does it say about someone who cites him as an authority?

  35. 285
    Mr. Know It All says:

    280 – nigelj
    “I could not find any clinical trials showing HCQ plus other drugs works. Some trials are in progress:”
    “Trump has promoted investigating injecting disnfectant which is insanely stupid::
    ” Numerous trials have found HCQ alone doesnt work for covid….”

    Clinical trials are not needed “during” a pandemic on drugs that have been used for decades by hundreds of millions of people. The drugs are already known to be safe when used as prescribed by your doctor, so it’s OK to TRY them on sick people, and so far, when combined with azithromycin and zinc in the early stages of COVID, they have proven to be an effective cure. Sorry to bust your bubble. Your BS articles can wipe out reality.

    Geez, more forest arsonists in Oregon – what’s wrong with those people! From left-wing Oregonian newspaper in Portland:

    https://www.oregonlive.com/crime/2020/09/man-arrested-charged-with-arson-in-connection-with-southern-oregon-fire.html

    https://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/2020/09/man-arrested-on-arson-allegation-in-wildfire-west-of-eugene-deputies-say.html

  36. 286
    Mr. Know It All says:

    nigelj

    Correction to my sentence in previous post:

    Your BS articles canNOT wipe out reality. ;)

  37. 287
    William B Jackson says:

    #2830 Not only what you posted but according to a researcher and doctors I heard on the radio we are now finding that many of those who “minor” cases needing no hospitalization are have ongoing side or after effects. Circulatory problems heart and lung deficits etc leading to long term health anomalies. These will be the people with co-morbidities whose deaths will “not” be the fault of the next covid like problem!

  38. 288
    William B Jackson says:

    Sorry I meant 283 not 2830 LOL!

  39. 289
    Mr. Know It All says:

    283 – Kevin McKinney
    “If you seriously think that other nations couldn’t put the same thumb on the scales to manipulate the statistics, you’re quite deluded.”

    It’s far worse than you know:
    https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/mar/28/coronavirus-crisis-fit-new-world-order/

    You’re welcome. Be Best! Dr. MKIA

  40. 290
    nigelj says:

    This is a relatively new proposal: “Viability of greenhouse gas removal via the artificial addition of volcanic ash to the ocean”

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S2213305420300308?dgcid=rss_sd_all

  41. 291
    nigelj says:

    https://yaleclimateconnections.org/2020/09/video-berkeley-study-90-percent-carbon-free-electricity-achievable-by-2035/

    Berkeley study: “90% carbon-free electricity achievable by 2035. Lower prices for solar, wind, and storage make conversion to renewables affordable and practical throughout the U.S., study authors say.” The attached video is short but quite good.

  42. 292
    William B Jackson says:

    #285 My dear Mr Know Nothing:
    What you do not seem to understand is that the precise cause of ignition is beside the point, the important thing is that the extreme dryness and excessive winds turns what would otherwise be a bad even dangerous fire into an inferno that spreads itself far beyond normal bounds. These sparks and campfires, brush fires started to clear a road side etc burn out of control so much easier under such conditions. Are you obtuse by nature or just to avoid admitting that you are wrong?
    Good Day.

  43. 293
    patrick027 says:

    re 277 zebra says:
    you ignore that distinction between money and what you call “wealth”,” No, but I could clarify – in that context, wealth = goods and services.
    and you need to better characterize “growth”.” – true.

    “My assertion is that in the case of a stable population with relatively abundant resources, “growth” in consumption (e.g. burning fossil fuels) is not inevitable, in fact it is unlikely.” – maybe so.

    “you assume things like inflation,” – but I never said the inflation rate had to be nonzero. Governments have some influence on this via the printing of money…

    Steady state is like a living cell just maintaining itself. There is still a metabolism, taking in food and excreting its waste, and there are repairs and replacements of parts – eg. people will still build houses. The proportions within the economy will be different of course – eg. fewer pediatriacians, more geriatric medicine, and so on. Maybe…

  44. 294
    patrick027 says:

    (oops, left italics on) – but I never said the inflation rate had to be nonzero. Governments have some influence on this via the printing of money…

    Steady state is like a living cell just maintaining itself. There is still a metabolism, taking in food and excreting its waste, and there are repairs and replacements of parts – eg. people will still build houses. The proportions within the economy will be different of course – eg. fewer pediatriacians, more geriatric medicine, and so on. Maybe…

    … the roles of stocks and banking will be reduced; I’m not sure.

    I’ll get back to this later, but for now, I’ll state that I recognize that the goods and services exchanged for money are just a subset of the total of all things of value, so there is a sort of ‘extended/wholistic’ economy that we should seek to maximize, which could involve a contraction of the ‘conventional’ economy. Imagine two sets of dimensions on the PPC https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Production%E2%80%93possibility_frontier – trying to maximize GDP/capita or GDP total is like just looking at a lower-dimension cross-section…

  45. 295
    nigelj says:

    Mr. Know It All @285

    “Clinical trials are not needed “during” a pandemic on drugs that have been used for decades by hundreds of millions of people. The drugs are already known to be safe when used as prescribed by your doctor, so it’s OK to TRY them on sick people, and so far, when combined with azithromycin and zinc in the early stages of COVID, they have proven to be an effective cure. ”

    You provide no studies, no citations, nothing. The best you can manage are anecdotal opinions of a couple doctors and we know how totally unreliable anecdote is. Sorry to bust your own bubble, hollow man.

  46. 296

    Wrote nigelj @290:

    This is a relatively new proposal: “Viability of greenhouse gas removal via the artificial addition of volcanic ash to the ocean”

    Captures about 5.5% as much CO2 as the same mass of dunite, and keeps it as organic matter instead of mineralizing it.  Unless it is much cheaper to mine volcanic ash than dunite, this looks inferior to enhanced weathering.

    @291:

    Berkeley study: “90% carbon-free electricity achievable by 2035. Lower prices for solar, wind, and storage make conversion to renewables affordable and practical throughout the U.S., study authors say.”

    The video makes some highly misleading claims, to wit:  “So most of the new electricity generation coming on-line today is coming from wind and solar.”  First, that’s nameplate capacity, not actual energy supplied.  Second, the closure of just ONE nuclear plant in Sinclair’s home state is going to take more clean energy off-line than all the wind plants in the state provide.  It’s a huge step backwards.  Last, if California can’t keep the lights on with less than 30% “renewables” on its grid, how can anyone expect to take that to 90%… anywhere?

    Also has this:

    MacArthur “genius” fellow Saul Griffith, in a clip included in the video, cautions advocates of renewable energy against “demonizing” the fossil fuel industry: “We are getting the fossil fuel industry sort of backed into a corner,” Griffith says in that video. “And honestly, the most people in this country who know how to build infrastructure at scale are in the fossil fuel industry.”

    Greenwash exposed.  Peter Sinclair has been an anti-nuclear tool of the fossil fuel industry for decades.

  47. 297
    nigelj says:

    Engineer-Poet @296,
    “This is a relatively new proposal: “Viability of greenhouse gas removal via the artificial addition of volcanic ash to the ocean”…..Captures about 5.5% as much CO2 as the same mass of dunite, and keeps it as organic matter instead of mineralizing it. Unless it is much cheaper to mine volcanic ash than dunite, this looks inferior to enhanced weathering.”

    I did notice that the study mentioned volcanic ash weathering costs $55 tonne of CO2 sequestered and it appears dunnite costs $60 tonne CO2 sequestered as below, so not much difference. This suggests volcanic ash is cheaper to mine:

    https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/aaa9c4

    Perhaps there’s a place for both. Perhaps it comes down to location and whether you have a lot of dunnite or a lot of volcanic ash. I assume it varies quite a bit.

  48. 298
    Mr. Know It All says:

    291 – nigelj
    “Berkeley study: “90% carbon-free electricity achievable by 2035…..”

    Killian ain’t gonna like that. It’s not aggressive enough. Besides it’s FAKE NEWS. 90% carbon-free is achievable NOW. Just turn off FFs until we’re at 90% carbon-free. You’d think people from Berzerkley would be able to figure that out.

  49. 299
    Ray Ladbury says:

    Mr. KIA: “Clinical trials are not needed “during” a pandemic on drugs that have been used for decades by hundreds of millions of people. The drugs are already known to be safe when used as prescribed by your doctor…”

    Uh, dude. Doctors prescribe these drugs for people with serious illnesses. They can have serious side effects. The patients you are suggesting take these drugs do not have the diseases the drugs are prescribed for. There is zero evidence that the drugs you are advocating are effective for COVID. Please get out of your rightwing fantasy land and get some real news before you hurt yourself or someone you care about (should such a person exist outside yourself).

  50. 300

    #296, E-P:

    The video makes some highly misleading claims…

    Which E-P then combats by making some of his own, capped by an unsubstantiated ad hom slur. Not worth rebutting in detail, but noted.

Leave a Reply

Comment policy. Please note that if your comment repeats a point you have already made, or is abusive, or is the nth comment you have posted in a very short amount of time, please reflect on the whether you are using your time online to maximum efficiency. Thanks.